Curse

JR · Jul 16, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Gun doesn't imply GW should have been a monthly subscription MMO where exactly did you get that from?

Actually Gun makes a fair point with which I agree. I bought this game knowing they will release updates periodically and that I would have to pay for them. It was advertised as a different "pay-to-play" model.

I could have payed monthly and play something like WoW but I never liked that system as *I don't play every month, week, day*. If the system WoW had was "pay per number of hours you play/per usage" (more like mobile carriers) it would have been more appealing maybe.

So the different model was one of the main reasons I chose GW and I am pretty sure I'm not the only one, I know I'm not that exceptional/unique.

Regarding the model they advertised... they failed. Undeniably.

And like Gun I also think they should have kept building campaigns/expansions for GW1 *during* the same time they worked on GW2. Yes there might have been technical difficulties... But they obviously did not need to add new skills or classes every expansion. However they chose to dump and run.

He has repeatedly said that the Guild Wars business model has not worked, and Blizzard has done a much better job. If that is not implying that Guild Wars should use a subscription model, then I don't know what is.

Then you yourself say that Guild Wars should have continued developing Guild Wars through the development of Guild Wars 2, which again has all the same implications as Gun's argument: monthly fees would have been a better choice.

"Regarding the model they advertised... they failed. Undeniably."

How? Why?

They made a profitable and popular game, and have consistently released large amounts of content for it over a four year period. How in any way has their model failed?

Do you mean you feel like you didn't get the content updates you felt you opted in for when you bought the box? If so I have to ask, exactly how recently did you start playing? I also have to ask at what point you feel it would be OK for ArenaNet to stop developing content for a dying game?

Gun Pierson · Jul 16, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

You keep on bringing this up like it is some kind of major flaw in their game plan, and it's a truly ridiculous argument.

You are saying Guild Wars should have gone the same route, so as to be able to afford to continue developing Guild Wars whilst working on Guild Wars 2. Has it ever occurred to you how massive a change you are suggesting?

Would Guild Wars even have been able to compete for a market share against World of Warcraft had it also gone for a subscription model? How different would the game be even if it had managed to survive? Would you even be here talking about this if you weren't looking forward to a subscription free sequel?

Please, quit it with the nonsense comparisons and naive worship of Blizzard.

I don't worship Blizzard but one can't deny they deliver good games. Didn't play WoW btw, except for the trial to have a feeling of it. I did however play MTG for 10 years and I like to compare it to that game as Anet used it for inspiration as they said themselves.

I never said I want GW to be a subscription based game. I just question the business model as something caused NCSoft to stop funding GW1. NCSoft who has a tradition in classic MMO-RPG games btw. Notice the contradiction between Anet and NCSoft?

So my nonsense is more to the point and might shed some more light on the situation than your pointless poll to be honest. This is a forum ofcourse and everybody has their own opinion.

JR · Jul 16, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

So to get this straight:

You are saying ArenaNet/NCSoft are silly for not choosing a business model that would allow them to fund development of the original whilst working on a sequel... but you are not suggesting they should have used a subscription model?

Pray tell, Gun, what exactly should they have done?

refer · Jul 16, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

So to get this straight:

You are saying ArenaNet/NCSoft are silly for not choosing a business model that would allow them to fund development of the original whilst working on a sequel... but you are not suggesting they should have used a subscription model?

Pray tell, Gun, what exactly should they have done?

Well he doesn't have to say anything. Sometimes you can know something is right but the issue is too complicated to decide a proper solution.

Me? I think they should more preview stuff... there will always be those who are impatient, so make money off them! Never gonna happen but beta PvP zones with something like.... [Next month's skill balance]: $3.50 (limited to the first ____ buyers).

Gun Pierson · Jul 16, 2009, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Put those 8-10 millions they waisted on Tabula Rasa in Anet instead.

All joking aside, it's difficult to say as we don't know the internal affairs and exact figures of both NCSoft and Anet and how they really see things behind the scene.

NCSoft should at least have had the deceny (if it could) towards the fans and the franchise to keep up an efficient team for GW1 that can create some new content. Which would mean something between 12-50 people more on the payroll on top of the '200' that work on GW2. If they could find the talent ofcourse.

refer · Jul 16, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Put those 8-10 millions they waisted on Tabula Rasa in Anet instead.

All joking aside, it's difficult to say as we don't know the internal affairs and exact figures of both NCSoft and Anet and how they really see things behind the scene.

NCSoft should at least have had the deceny towards the fans and the franchise to keep up an efficient team for GW1 that can create some new content. Which would mean something between 12-50 people more on the payroll on top of the '200' that work on GW2.

Can't they just get volunteers too? I know there are some of you here who would to die to do skill balancing (actual balancing, not shifting the "balance" to your side), even if for nothing.

dsielschott · Jul 16, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I agree with main post because of the compitition out there they do NOT want any ideas stolen/"expanded" on so that they are the first with this idea.....however with that said the main thing I would like is a update on like % complete......even if it is only like 10% still something.....in my feild we have updates every 15% after 50%.....so that is really what I would like to see.....progress results....but those are difficult to track in video game creation because a code could all of a sudden work and make a huge leap in the % complete.....but o well I will wait and hope I am not to old to play when it comes out.....

Aljasha · Jul 16, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

i do long for gw2 but anet needs more time to polish the game and implement stuff gw1 lacked completely. anet's developers are great, but there is so much they have to create from scratch and might be subject to change from time to time, which could drag the release date way off the intended release date.

some moths ago, anet told us they want to expand the game's overall content and i hope they don't want to much.

my guess is that many features are still in development and anet is not able to tell us yet, which features will be found in the final build.

Ravious · Jul 16, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

So to get this straight:

You are saying ArenaNet/NCSoft are silly for not choosing a business model that would allow them to fund development of the original whilst working on a sequel... but you are not suggesting they should have used a subscription model?

You mean to say that you cannot conceive of a way where they work on both Guild Wars 1 and a sequel? They had "two teams" for the campaigns. They have nearly double the employees they had at Prophecies. Plus, they have big daddy NCSoft.

I submit that it actually would not have been a problem if beta testing had started in 2008. The service, which I was used to, would've nearly remained in tact. But, somehow they theoretically got more capital infusion (money=time, friend /asura) so that they did not have to push out the game by 2008-2009.

That's my biggest problem with their PR for Guild Wars 2. They set expectations early. Their excuse is "we told you about it early, but we didn't have to." I fully agree that they had the power not to tell us (which would have also been a PR nightmare). YET, they did tell us, and they told us about the game, and they told us when beta testing was going to be. They set expectations.

Now for whatever reason (capital infusion, tech breakthrough, etc.) they changed gameplans to what we are on now. Good for them. I hope GW2 shakes the pillars of video gamedom with the extra time they were given. The only misstep was they did not manage our expectations, which they set, when they changed pace. It wasn't until Mike O'Brien's letter nearly half a year ago in response to the NCSoft investor's report that they even attempted to bring us back to the wavelength they are operating at.

Ghost Omel · Jul 16, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

Well he doesn't have to say anything. Sometimes you can know something is right but the issue is too complicated to decide a proper solution.

Me? I think they should more preview stuff... there will always be those who are impatient, so make money off them! Never gonna happen but beta PvP zones with something like.... [Next month's skill balance]: $3.50 (limited to the first ____ buyers).

Selling updates 0_0.. to early buyers?

Wow thats a perfect idea.. Why not do this... NcSoft will sell you a lvl 20 characters with all the titles including PvP titles with a 10 staks of Zkeys and Ectos all char slots and every proffesion along with ALL the minis and special weapons -_- only 59.99 that way you dont have to play at all =) Joking ofcourse no offence =)

I Say that the bussiness model did not fail.. If it would the game wouldnt last for 4 years right.... i mean money comes from somewere and seeing how NcSoft wastes money on a paycheck that dooms his own product its not from them. And im pretty sure anet is not wasting money out of their own pocket for it as well they are to busy with GW2. That said it leaves only one possible choice...The game pays for itself. Disregarding all the "Cwapy game and old it has become no updates for me -_-" claims the developers of this game done an outstanding job that DOES rival a gaming company that has been a dragon amongst ants for over a decade -_-(Blizzard)

In my book it checks of as A succesfull game from a owesome developer leads of which are Ex-Blizzarders, wow i wonder why they QUIT? Oh yeah to bring us something unique =)

Lets see if GW2 will be out by late 2010 =) or beta in mid 2010 =)

Improvavel · Jul 16, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Sincerely, I don't know why costumers of GW expect to receive information about GW2.

People paid for GW and got what they paid for and, as with every MMORPG, people knew or (should know) that there is a risk the game will die.

GW didn't die, but went stagnant after NF - EotN was just a bandage.

Whatever comes in GW2, I expect it to have vertical expansions - this is, GW will come with content from level 1-XX, expansion 1 lvl xx - yy, expansion2 lvl yy-zz, and so on.

Test Me · Jul 16, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

"Regarding the model they advertised... they failed. Undeniably."

How? Why?

I'll put it very simple for you: they said they don't sell a pay by subscription based game but rather a pay by regular every 6 months update game.

If I tell you I'm going to cook dinner and I don't, then it means I failed at cooking dinner.

Simple enough?

Miss Puddles · Jul 16, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

ArenaNet handles GW2 the same way they handle GW. You will find out when it happens.

They are very consistent with this method.

I voted #3. I can wait. ANet has proven they can make a good game. I don't want to get early news about things that might not end up in the final release.

This.

Admittedly I'm rather put off by them announcing GW2 what seems like a bazillion years before it is actually going to be released, but on the other hand I'm pretty confident that it will be worth the wait.

JR · Jul 16, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

I'll put it very simple for you: they said they don't sell a pay by subscription based game but rather a pay by regular every 6 months update game.

If I tell you I'm going to cook dinner and I don't, then it means I failed at cooking dinner.

Simple enough?

They didn't start talking about chapters every six months until quite a while after release, so it was never supposed to be a key attraction to their model. Even once they did I believe it was only stated as an intention rather than a promise.

Gun Pierson · Jul 16, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

They didn't start talking about chapters every six months until quite a while after release, so it was never supposed to be a key attraction to their model.

Here's a quote from Jeff Strain way before release:

Quote:

Here's what I can tell you about the future of the game. First of all, we've always said that our intent is to release a couple each year. So we're looking for about a six-month time frame for each release. Also, you mentioned "a few new skills," and I'd probably revise that. We're not going to be releasing a few new skills and maybe one new character class, because we're not going to release "expansion packs." We're going to release what we call a new chapter in the world. We want to make it very clear that the scope and scale of content you'll be getting in the new chapters are comparable to what you'll be getting in the original game.

source:
http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com...rs-ece10d.html

Lonesamurai · Jul 16, 2009, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Ok, JR and I talked extensively about this yesterday,maybe for about 5-6 hours on the subject and I'm in complete agreement with him because he knows the business, he actually was there when a games company failed (Auron anyone?)

Like myself he's also been there since the beginning of the game and been active in a lot of the behind the scenes Alpha side and I know he is even willing to destroy any hopes he had of being a part of GW2 Alpha or whatever by trying to help ANet by being honest and he is

and Gun, that site has no date on it so no way to know its from before release, but i remember that from AFTER release anyway because I waslinked it when I was working for GAME in the UK and was one of only three managers to get into the beta that way

and FYI guys, the game was marketed as FREE to play, not Pay to play and also says Free to play on the box

Gun Pierson · Jul 16, 2009, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

and Gun, that site has no date on it so no way to know its from before release, but i remember that from AFTER release anyway because I waslinked it when I was working for GAME in the UK and was one of only three managers to get into the beta that way

No prob I have more proof.You guys were not the only ones around you know. This site has a date. August 2004, almost a year before release:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guild...tle%3B3&page=3
Jeff Strain again:

Quote:

Upon the release of that second chapter, essentially the teams will reverse roles. The chapter two team will then become the live team, and the first team will begin development on chapter three. With this process, you will experience excellent in-game support within a growing, dynamic world, and you will have the opportunity to acquire significant new content every six to nine months.

Lonesamurai · Jul 16, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

but Gun, thats exactly what happened, but instead of Chapter three, they went to EotN and changed focus

Legendm · Jul 16, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

I'm starting to get the feeling that every Guild Wars 2 thread is just made for an excuse to bitch. I mean every single one made comes down to 'Anet owes us more information' (which isn't even true). We've had this same discussion probably about a thousand times. Move on, play another game, I'm sure there is something else in your life that could replace guild wars. Then in a few years when the game is actually released come back and play it if you're still interested.

IlikeGW · Jul 16, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

You know what, Anet failed on many of their significant promises, but be happy it's not on a Hellgate level of failure. At least we know what they are, the average game making middleman of the MMO world. They're not worth drooling over but if you want to get their next game out of the bargain bin go for it. I just wouldn't spend full retail on their games ever again. Stop looking for a fix from them though, GW1 isn't getting it, GW2 will not solve the problems of GW1. Accept them for what they are, the not A level game producer.